New hard drive - Information not yet available in Disk Information

[McFirson]

Hello,

I just purchased two Seagate 8TB HDDs (ST8000NT001-3LZ101). I have inserted one into HDD Dock station from company LC Power and connected it to PC via USB cable (my intended way of using these HDDs).

Issue: HDS is not showing information for this HDD in Disk Information section - see attachment HDS 8TB.png.

HDS 8TB.png (58.39 KiB) Viewed 2146 times

"Information not yet available" is shown instead of data I need to see (Number of Disks and Number of Heads and other).

This is something I never experienced before with HDS. Before this, I have connected different hard drives with lower capacities in the same dock setup and Disk Information section has shown data as usual (see attachment HDS 2TB.png).

HDS 2TB.png (56.8 KiB) Viewed 2146 times

I first connected this one 8TB HDD without formatting it, and now it is formatted to exFAT file system - same issue "Information not yet available".

Connecting the HDD over SATA cable is a bit of a problem, but I would like to know if that could provide missing data?

HDS version is 5.61 PRO. I'm using Win10 on a desktop computer. Should I update HDS? Would this update complicate operation with other hard drives?

From other topics on this forum, I only gathered that one of the solutions is related to hard disk controllers - I wouldn't know which driver to download.

Is the "Send report to developer" the correct way to give you necessary information to help with troubleshooting the issue?

[hdsentinel]

The Information not yet available means that the current version of Hard Disk Sentinel does not have this model in its internal database, so can't show these details. These information comes from the database of the software, so yes, generally if you use an old version with a new hard disk drive, there is good chance that the database of Hard Disk Sentinel does not yet have it.
This does not affect Health, temperature and further status information display, just some additional (extra) information is not yet available - as you can see.


> HDS version is 5.61 PRO. I'm using Win10 on a desktop computer.
> Should I update HDS? Would this update complicate operation with other hard drives?

Yes, it is always best to use the latest version.
Latest versions are always better, especially for new hardware (new hard disk drives, SSDs, external storage in general) and also new OS versions/updates.

So yes, I recommend to update to latest 6.10 version.


> From other topics on this forum, I only gathered that one of the solutions is related to hard disk controllers - I wouldn't know which driver to download.

No, this is not the case now. Hard disk controllers (and their drivers) generally affect how the status information (Health, temperature and further details) can be detected. But as this information is not detected from the drive but showed from the internal database, it is independent from the controller/driver. So no need to change/update driver.


> Is the "Send report to developer" the correct way to give you necessary information to help with troubleshooting the issue?

Yes, generally the Report menu -> Send test report to developer option is always the best way, recommended many times in this forum.
This way it is possible to check the "raw" disk information detected, check model ID, firmware, status and so. And this can help to extend the database with newer disk drives (if it is still not yet included in the database of Hard Disk Sentinel).

[McFirson]

Thank you for the prompt reply.

Idea to update HDS occured to me first of all, still waited for correct input.

Unfortunately, updating HDS didn't have the desired effect - Disk Information section is still showing the same text:

HDS 8TB-after-update.png (58.68 KiB) Viewed 2127 times

Is there something else I should do after the HDS update? Update was performed from inside the program, Configuration menu -> Update, and the software is v6.10.

Just in case this HDD is not in the database, as you mention that is a possibility, I have sent the report.

[hdsentinel]

Thanks for the report, yes, as I see, this model is not yet in the database, so the latest version also shows similar.

Thanks for your attention, this model will be added to the database as soon as possible, so a later version will probably able to show this information too.

[McFirson]

Understood, thank you for the clarifications. I'm really glad to be of help with updating the database, I've been using HDS for years.

One more thing: Could you please provide me with information that would be visible in Disk Information section? I'm asking because of time sensitivity (to return HDDs to the seller), otherwise I would wait for new release.

I looked for this model of HDD because of some specific features. I want to check if what I bought is the real deal or to ask for refund.

[hdsentinel]

Everything "above" this last section on the Information page are detected from the disk drive itself. This includes (for example) the functionality and features supported / enabled, so everything above the "Information not yet available" is properly detected, reported.

Generally the database can contain the details you can see in this last section (where now you see "Information not yet available") - if we have 100% accurate official information.

For this particular disk drive, the official specification sheet used, eg. for this model:
https://www.seagate.com/content/dam/seagate/migrated-assets/www-content/datasheets/pdfs/ironwolf-pro-20tb-DS1914-21-2206US-en_US.pdf
which contains most of the details (not all, as manufacturers often do not make all information public eg. the number of disks/heads or so).

May I ask: did you have any issue with the drive itself? According the report, it was 100% perfect, working.

Or do you look specifically for a function/feature of the drive - which may seems missing / unavailable?
Please let me know - as I can help to check / verify, just to be sure.

A side note: I recommend to check Disk menu -> Device Specific Information function.
It reads additional information from the drive, for example the internal error logs (probably empty) and previous self test logs (probably empty too) and additional special functions/features supported by the drive. As they provided by different ways, they may be not listed in the Information page.
This function can help advanced users looking for some specific details. Not sure, but can help to verify/confirm.

[McFirson]

Thank you for the insight into how this works. I believed the information I wanted was read from the hard drive itself, upon HDS or any other software detecting it. I have little experience with HDD technology apart from using HDS, and it shows.

Answers:

1) Yes, hard drive seems to be operating correctly, I haven't performed any tests upon it or copied data onto it.

1a)Should I run a Surface/other test on this disk since it is new and higher capacity? Never done it with other HDDs, but I feel I should do it for this one.
1b)Is it safe for the disk to perform test on it while it is on USB connection to the PC? HDD is in dock, which has its own power supply.

2) I'm sure you heard this before:
The information I was looking for is the number of disks and reader heads that are physically inside the hard disk. I base my purchase decisions on those factors.

Edit: I usually find this info by looking for specs, but there are some sites who have user collected data about hard disks.

So, this HDD, according to specs I have also previously found, has 4 platters with 2 TB each, and 8 reader heads. With 7200 RPM and 256 MB cache.

I have read on different sites and by different people that if there is a possibility, buy HDDs with the lowest amount of platters and reader heads. And also CMR. And bunch of other things, that seem to be important.

I purchased these disks as they seem to not have hardware deviations (amount of platters/heads is different, even though the model number is almost exactly the same), which was found to happen with some other HDDs.

2a) Can you confirm (from the report) if the info I would like to see (platter/heads/RPM etc.) is according to spec or that is simply not verifiable by reading the report?

[hdsentinel]

The problem is that no, hard disk drives do not provide the number of disks / heads and the recording technology (CMR / SMR or so). Sometimes manufacturers even want to "hide" the internals.
I completely understand and agree what you wrote. The official PDF file confirms that the drive is CMR, 7200 RPM, 256 MB cache - so these will be surely displayed by Hard Disk Sentinel too as these details will be surely added to the database.

Number of platters / heads is still not known FOR SURE. Yes, considering the different capacities from this model family, probably the 4 platters / 8 heads assumption is correct, but we can't be 100% FOR SURE.

Here I'm sending the answers:

1a) Yes, generally I always recommend testing even on a new drive, exactly to confirm that the drive is perfect - or reveal any issue (and if so, ask for replacement) long before the drive would be filled with important data:
Support -> Frequently Asked Questions -> Hard disk health is low or recently changed or I just installed a new (used) hard disk. How can I perform a deep analysis?
https://www.hdsentinel.com/faq.php#tests

Some of these tests may take REALLY long time, so to save time, I'd (at least) use
Disk menu -> Short self test
and
Disk menu -> Surface test -> Read test
just to ensure that ALL sectors read at least once, so the complete disk surface scanned.

Copying files is not bad idea - but this method will surely not check ALL possible sectors. Without a complete surface read, problems may remain unnoticed for long time, even months or years (depending on the usage).
Similar issue shown at
https://www.hdsentinel.com/hard_disk_case_bad_sectors.php



> 1b)Is it safe for the disk to perform test on it while it is on USB connection to the PC? HDD is in dock, which has its own power supply.

Yes, it is perfect, especially if the dock allows some airflow.
I mean a closed USB enclosure would be not as good as it may prevent cooling, but a USB dock is correct.


> I have read on different sites and by different people that if there is a possibility,
> buy HDDs with the lowest amount of platters and reader heads. And also CMR. And bunch of other things, that seem to be important.

Yes, generally this is a good practice. Personally in many cases I also use similar logic to select drives for storage.


> 2a) Can you confirm (from the report) if the info I would like to see (platter/heads/RPM etc.)
> is according to spec or that is simply not verifiable by reading the report?

The number of platters/heads is a big mistery, it is not provided by the drive, so we can't know from the report.
The RPM is 100% sure, it is displayed on the Information page:

Nominal Media Rotation Rate . . . . . . . . . . : 7200 RPM

Probably the drive is CMR. Most SMR drives support (generally SSD-specific) functions like Data set management / TRIM. These are not supported by your drive (again according the Information page, you can verify) so this probably confirms that it is CMR drive.

I suggest to check the Disk menu -> Device Specific Information page. If I'm correct, you can find the cache size on that page, probably confirms that too (if you prefer, you can save + send that information page to info (at) hdsentinel (dot) com so I can check/verify too).

[McFirson]

Hello hdsentinel,

Thank you for the explanations earlier. Sorry for not responding. I was intending to perform all suggested checks on both drives and report here back then, but my setup for some reason prevented me from initiating Surface test. And the issue was not solved until this week, so I didn't use the drives.

Explanation: Dock has Type-C to Type-C cable for connection, but my PC didn't have Type-C port at the time. So I searched for and bought high speed USB 3.1 Type-C to Type-A cable. That did allow me to transfer files to HDD, but Surface test was not starting, so I didn't try again.

Now my PC has Type-C port, through PCI Express expansion card. And thus the tests were performed on both HDDs, both 100% good.

I only have one question, what do these temperatures readouts and speed dropping down indicate? I guess what it could be, but I'm not sure. One of the HDDs I'm using seem to work fine, so I'm not exactly worried.

20240323-084605_R_ST8000NT001-3LZ101_WWZ3W5MF_EN01-surface-full-st.jpg (1.05 MiB) Viewed 319 times

20240315-213325_R_ST8000NT001-3LZ101_WWZ3VZLV_EN01-surface-full-st.jpg (418.97 KiB) Viewed 319 times

In normal work, transfer speed to HDD is around 260 MB/s, might be due my setup, but I don't need higher speed, to be honest. Hopefully lower speed is good for HDD...?

I installed new update for HD Sentinel, and the information is now visible.

Screenshot 2024-03-23 210629.png (38.49 KiB) Viewed 319 times

Also, thank you for completely clarifying the topic of internals of HDD. I simply didn't notice, on all the sites I visited, that the information about internals is researched from manufacturer pdfs and measuring, and not obtained from HDDs themselves. Well, that was enlightening, saved me from making some other wrong assumptions.

[hdsentinel]

Thanks for the images.

Yes, the temperature and transfer speed seems absolutely correct and expected. Generally during intensive using (like a surface test) the temperature can increase with 20-25 Celsius as you can see. Yes, on hard disks, the slowly decreasing performance graph is also expected, all hard disks should have slightly similar result.

> I installed new update for HD Sentinel, and the information is now visible.
> Also, thank you for completely clarifying the topic of internals of HDD. I simply didn't notice, on all the sites I visited,
> that the information about internals is researched from manufacturer pdfs and measuring,
> and not obtained from HDDs themselves. Well, that was enlightening, saved me from making some other wrong assumptions.

Thanks, good to hear this can help
Generally these information not provided by the disk drive (could not detect from that), Hard Disk Sentinel has an internal database for hard disks with the physical parameters. Yes, for that, we use manufacturer specs (if available - because as you may know, manufacturers sometimes prefer to "hide" the internals, eg. the SMR/CMR and the number of disks/heads etc.)