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Communication errors on Samsung SSD

PostPosted: 2021.10.19. 01:19
by JonathanVQP
I have two SSDs: a 1 TB Crucial SSD (CT1000BX500SSD1) and a 2 TB Samsung EVO 870 SSD. I have had the Crucial longer than the Samsung and I noticed that the Samsung is having increasing Ultra ATA CRC Error counts while the Crucial SSD is having none. This is my second Samsung SSD and I have replaced the motherboard (Asus Crosshair V Formula Z), the Sata cables (6 GB Sata 3) as well as have dedicated power cables to each SSD from a new 1200 watt PSU. The temperature for each SSD is the same and there is no overheating. I have done everything that the Sentinel program tells me to do if I get these CRC errors but I am still getting increasing Ultra ATA CRC error counts for this replacement and new Samsung SSD but not the Crucial SSD. The firmware is updated for both SSDs. Since this is my second Samsung SSD that is showing increasing errors, I don't know what is going on! Samsung's software: Samsung Magician is showing that my Samsung SSD error count as fine while this Hard Disk Sentinel software is showing that it is increasing!

I have seen numerous comments regarding Hard Disk Sentinel showing increasing Error counts so I don't know if it is a software bug, hardware issue, or what????

Any assistance is appreciated!

Attached are the images of the Samsung SSD
Samsung SSD
1.png (81.32 KiB) Viewed 355 times

Samsung SSD Ultra ATA CRC Error Count
2.png (84.63 KiB) Viewed 355 times

And the Crucial SSD:
Crucial SSD
3.png (77.75 KiB) Viewed 355 times

Crucial SSD Ultra DMA Error Count
4.png (89.3 KiB) Viewed 355 times

Re: Communication errors on Samsung SSD

PostPosted: 2021.10.19. 11:03
by hdsentinel
Thanks for your message.
No, I'm afraid I can confirm that there is absolutely no bug here but the opposite: Hard Disk Sentinel does exactly what it should: detect and reveal possible changes, degradations - when (and especially if) these are usually ignored by other tools.

Please check the article suggested in the text description:

which describes that in most cases the issue is related to SATA cables or the SATA connections.
Sometimes other factors (for example overclocking, generic system overheat - not the SSD temperature but CPU/chipset) can cause troubles. I do not really think that the PSU or power cables can cause it in your system (but maybe, I've seen similar with some modular PSUs even if over 1000 W).

In some cases the issue is related to the disk controller (chipset) or its driver: I'd check if there is an update for the SATA controller/chipset driver too.
Alternatively, you may try to connect the SSD to different SATA port on the motherboard, just for a test.

Some SSDs / hard disk drives are more sensitive for this - so it is possible that a different model/brand may not show/record communication errors.
Comparing to a different model/brand usually gives false assumptions...

Other tools (especially the manufacturer-specific tools) happily ignore such issues and report only if an error-threshold reached (so warranty replacement is required or not) exactly to prevent THIS kind of questions from users ;)
Those are not aware of stored data, they do not care minor issues which can cause data corruption/data loss - especially if these are in most cases outside the scope of the disk drive: the operating environment causes that.

Please note that if you replace the cable, check/fix connections - the errors still remain displayed because the SSD records all problems in its lifetime and does not "know" that the cable changed. You'd need to manually clear the error counter (see the above link for details) in order to acknowledge them and be informed about possible new problems only. The goal is to do NOT have new errors recorded.

> I have seen numerous comments regarding Hard Disk Sentinel showing increasing Error counts so I don't know if it is a software bug, hardware issue, or what????

Thanks, good to hear - as generally this is exactly why Hard Disk Sentinel designed: to detect and reveal the possible problems - when they are ignored by others.
I understand that if somebody hear "bad news" he may want to ignore that, but this does not really fix the problem....

Re: Communication errors on Samsung SSD

PostPosted: 2021.10.19. 11:05
by hdsentinel
Ps. I changed the topic name to more relevant and accurate.

Re: Communication errors on Samsung SSD

PostPosted: 2021.10.21. 14:37
by JonathanVQP
Thank you for your detailed response! Yes, I did check the article suggested in the text description: As stated in my previous message, I have already replaced the sata cables, made sure the sata connections are good, checked the power and data cables of the ssds, using high quality cables, avoided using cable splitters and extenders etc... When I swapped the sata connection from my Samsung SSD to the Crucial SSD (different sata port), Hard Disk Sentinel displays no errors. Also, since my PSU is new and the cables are new, I have ruled them out too. I have also checked to see if there is an update to the sata controller/chipset (there is none) but I updated it anyways to rule it out.

Even if I cleared the log in Hard disk sentinel, it still increases! Since the last count, I now have "problems occurred between the host communication of the disk and the host 186 times" and only 3 days have passed! Since, I have swapped motherboard, cables, sata ports, sata ssd, psu, and power cables, I have pretty much eliminated any hardware issues that is causing this communication host error which leaves me with the process of elimination, your software. The fact that I see this comment constantly in the messages either indicates a software bug or that everyone is having this host communication issue?! Yes, this does not fix the issue but then again, since this is the second replacement ssd, I find it impossible that it is also failing too!

Re: Communication errors on Samsung SSD

PostPosted: 2021.10.23. 09:11
by hdsentinel
I can confirm that the SSD is absolutely NOT failing, as you can see its Health is 100% perfect.
The communication problems can cause degraded performance (and in worst case other troubles mentioned like BSOD) but it is not really problem with the SSD.
Did you check/disable overclocking? That can cause generic system instability too and can cause similar.

I can confirm that no, of course there is no software bug. I'd be more than happy if this would be a software bug (really, as then I'd immediately correct it) but the SSD itself detects and increases its error counter internally, regardless of Hard Disk Sentinel. Hard Disk Sentinel "just" reads and displays the new problems and increases attention to this change - exactly as should.

I examined the last 100 reports received about similar Samsung 870 EVO models with various capacities (from 250 GB to 4 TB) and I can confirm that NONE of them ever reported communication errors. This confirms that there is no generic "mis-interpretation" or similar compatibility issue ("software bug") between this model and Hard Disk Sentinel.

If you do not want to see the constantly increasing error count, then you can easily hide/ignore: just select the S.M.A.R.T. page and in the line of 199 Ultra ATA CRC Error Count attribute, under "Enable" column, uncheck the checkbox. Then Hard Disk Sentinel will ignore, no longer report the constantly incrasing amount of errors.

But of course this does not fix the fact that something in your system is still causing new errors in the operation of this SSD - regardless if displayed by Hard Disk Sentinel or not.

If you can place it to a completely different computer (at least for a test), to connect to a completely different motherboard with different cables, PSU etc. and copy/move some data - maybe you can see that there is no such change there, similarly to the 100 systems where this model used.

This is why I suggested to send a developer report: checking the actual disk controller (and its driver) may give some ideas, thoughts about what can cause the issue on your system.
Plus then I can examine and confirm that your SSD has 100% similar firmware version than the models tested - or if there is something very minor difference which may require attention.

Re: Communication errors on Samsung SSD

PostPosted: 2021.10.23. 22:20
by JonathanVQP
I did check overclocking and it is not enabled in my bios.

As requested, I uploaded the debug report from my Hard Disk Sentinel program. Unfortunately, I do not have another desktop computer to test the Samsung SSD on. I did swap power cables and sata cables to another sata slot on my motherboard and I did notice that the my Crucial SSD does not report any errors no matter what sata slot it is connected to while my Samsung SSD does report errors.

Hopefully the debug report will give you an idea of what is going on!